With what years and models is your kit compatible?
2006 Si Coupe
2007 Si Sedan, Coupe
2008 Si Sedan, Coupe
2009 Si Sedan, Coupe
2010 Si Sedan, Coupe
2011 Si Sedan, Coupe
Hondata's FlashPro is incompatible with the 2012 Si, so we do not know if our kit works with that year.
What is the cost and turnaround time to install the turbo kit?
$1200 and 3 days on a stock engine. It can take up to 3 weeks when doing an AJP Road Monster package.
Also, the fuel return kit labor is $250 and the gauge labor is $350.
How much boost do I need in order to get 420 whp?
11 psi with Hondata's FlashPro.
How do you tune your kit?
Hondata's FlashPro for the Si.
Will I have any Check Engine Lights?
No, Hondata FlashPro eliminates them.
What else do you recommend that I get with the kit?
The fuel return kit is an external fuel pressure regulator that supplies the additional fuel to the engine when you increase the boost and step on the accelerator. We sell this but a competent performance shop should be able to build one for you.
3" exhaust - get more power.
Ingalls Stiffy Engine Torque Damper to reduce engine vibration.
Competition Clutch Stage 4 Clutch disk for stock engines, Competition Clutch Multi-plate Assembly Twin-Disc Ceramic Kit for the AJP Road Monster Packages.
Does your turbo kit run on stock internals?
Yes. Our kit gives you up to 420 whp on stock internals alone.
Unlike other kits, our kit does not require you to use a thicker head gasket or lower the compression on your stock motor at all.
For built motors, our kit still uses the stock radiator.
What size are the injectors?
Does my header and/or intake work with your kit?
Headers and intakes do not work with our kit. Don't buy them or if you already have them, sell them when you install our kit.
Does your kit require 93 octane fuel?
No. It runs fine on 91 octane but your whp will drop to about 350. You must get your tuning adjusted by a local tuner for 91 octane. You can damage your motor if you use 91 octane while the tune is still set for 93.
How can I get 800 whp like you guys did?
Building your motor, bigger turbo, bigger intercooler, bigger intercooler piping, bigger injectors.
On what dyno did you develop your turbo kit?
On a Dynojet dyno owned and operated by Speed Injected of Hallandale, FL. The numbers we publicize - 376 whp, 232 ft-lbs torque - are Dynojet numbers.
How soon do you ship your kit after I pay for it?
We ship the kit within 3 weeks.
Any discounts if I get my own parts?
Yes, we can sell you a partial kit.
Does your kit work outside the United States?
Yes, but you have to make sure your ecu is compatible with FlashPro. FlashPro is compatible with cars sold in North America, South America, Europe, South Africa and Asia.
See Hondata's website for more information:
Do you have more than one shop that can install your kit?
Our only shop is in the Fort Lauderdale area. Contact us to see if we know of a shop that has done an installation in your area. But your best bet is to get a personal recommendation from someone who has personal experience with a performance shop. If you don't know anyone, check the local forums to see who has a good reputation.
Do you offer financing?
Is your turbo kit approved for my state inspection?
We do not track which states have approved our kit. However, we can check to see if any of our customers live in your state. We are not CARB compliant.
Would you be willing to sponsor my vehicle?
Only if you race your car in publicly-recognized races that demonstrate the power and/or durability of our kit It could be dragstrip or circuit racing.
We do not sponsor show vehicles. See our section on Sponsorships.
What do you have planned for your car?
On December 6, 2009, we ran an 11.177 at Palm Beach International Raceway:
Street Outlaw: 4-Cylinder, Racer #7280
At what track do you run your car?
Palm Beach International Raceway (formerly Moroso Motorsports Park)
Do you accept trade-ins of old turbo kits?
No. The liability of making sure the parts are fully functional before selling them is too high. eBay is your best bet.
How can I tell if a used AJP turbo kit is authentic?
First, older kits should have a Hondata reflash. If it does not, ask the seller why.
Second, it should have the parts listed on our website.
Third, give us a call. We track who owns our kits.
Can I still use my car for daily driving after I install the turbo kit?
Yes, as a matter of fact, most of our stock motor customers use their car for daily driving.
What is Hondata’s FlashPro?
FlashPro is a user-controllable device to reflash the Honda Civic Si's ecu. Prior to this, the only way to reflash your ecu was to send it to Hondata.
Instead of a high-cost one-size-fits-all reflash, you now have the ability to reflash your ecu any number of times with your own settings. Popular settings can be saved to a calibration file and shared with other FlashPro users.
FlashPro for the Si is compatible for years 2006-2011. It is not compatible with the 2012+ Si.
Does FlashPro work with my 20xx Honda Civic [Si]?
FlashPro works for the 2006-2011 Honda Civic Si and the 2006-2011 Honda Civic. It does not work with the 2012+ models.
Hondata has not announced availability for the 2012 Honda Civic [Si].
How does the AJP Si Turbo Kit incorporate FlashPro?
You will need to buy your own FlashPro unit. We have developed a base tune and saved it to a calibration file. We will copy the calibration file to your FlashPro unit or send it to you for you to upload it to your FlashPro unit. You can then reflash your ecu with it.
If you have us tune your car, we will continue to fine tune the reflash. If not, then you/your tuner can tune off our calibration file or tune from scratch. We are can support your tuner - please call us for rates.
Do I have to get my own FlashPro?
Yes, a FlashPro unit can work on one car at a time. If you sell the FlashPro unit, you must reset your ecu back to stock before transferring ownership.
What is the turnaround time for the FlashPro reflash procedure?
90 seconds for each reflash by FlashPro. Those 90-second reflashes can add up.
What is the psi limit of FlashPro?
We are in the process of determining that but we have pushed it to 40 psi.
Do you sell FlashPro for cars sold outside North and South America?
No. We are a US dealer for Hondata. Hondata policy does not allow us to sell their international version of FlashPro. That means that we cannot sell FlashPro for any car that was purchased in Europe, Africa or Asia.
However, if you bought your car in North or South America and then shipped it to another part of the world, we can sell you a FlashPro because your car has a North or South American ecu.
Is FlashPro better than the Hondata AJP turbo reflash?
Our customers are raving about the improvement it has made to the drivability.
It has all of the advantages of the Hondata AJP Turbo reflash without its disadvantages, which included an 8.5 psi boost limit and no ability to fine-tune.
We do not use the reflash for turbo kit any more.
What kind of sponsorships do you have?
We have partial sponsorships for those racing in publicly recognized races. These can be local, state or national races.
Sponsorships include discounts on the purchase price of the kit or kit upgrades.
How do I qualify for a sponsorship?
You must have organized racing experience to qualify.
1. At least three videos of you driving the car through a race. These can be internal or external videos.
2. Scans of timeslips with your finishing time marked clearly.
3. Your planned race schedule for the upcoming season and the website that sponsors the races.
What if I don't qualify?
We can still work something out. You buy the kit at full price and we can refund partial amounts based on your race results.
How much power will your kit produce with an aftermarket exhaust?
We have not tested it but you should make at least 10 more whp.
How much power does your R18 turbo kit produce?
240 whp and 200 ft-lbs. of torque at 10 psi. On our Dynocom dyno , we recorded 240 whp and 200 ft.-lbs. of torque, SAE Correction Factor, Smoothing 5. On a Dynojet dyno, we recorded 234 whp, 198 ft.-lbs. of torque, ASE Correction Factor, Smoothing 5. During the Dynojet session, the Correction Factor was set to Standard, which runs slightly higher than SAE. So we tuned it lower than we should have.
What is your tuning?
Can FlashPro be used to tune this kit?
Will your kit work with my automatic transmission?
Yes. It works for both manual and automatic transmission. But the automatic transmission will have less hp and torque due to higher powertrain losses.
Does your kit work with a stock exhaust?
Yes, it bolts right on.
What turbo does your kit have?
Precision Turbo 5457.
Do I need anything else to go along with the kit?
A bigger exhaust will help.
Is this a bolt-on kit?
Yes. No hacking up your car or front bumper.
I already have a Hondata reflash. Do I still need to get FlashPro?
If you have the Hondata Naturally-Aspirated reflash, you will need FlashPro. If you have the Hondata AJP turbo reflash, you do not have to get FlashPro, but we recommend that you do.
Do I need the Hondata FlashPro?
No, you can use whatever tuning you want - AEM Fuel/Ignition Controller, Greddy e-Manage Ultimate, Haltech, Motech, etc. However, our experience is that the turbo kit runs best with the Hondata FlashPro.
Do you reflash the ECU?
Yes, Hondata's FlashPro gives you the ability reflash your ecu as many times as you want.
Do you offer a Hondata ECU reflash for your AJP R18 kit?
Yes, it will be offered when we introduce our AJP R18 kit this summer (2009).
What is a reflash?
A reflash is a reconfiguration of the ecu using special electronic equipment. The ecu is removed from the vehicle, reflashed (either on-site or another location) and then returned to the vehicle. Reflashing does not alter the outside of the unit in any way.
Can I get the reflash now and the turbo kit later?
You can by paying for the reflash and 50% of the turbo kit up front.
However, your car will lose significant performance until you install the turbo kit because the reflash is tuned for big injectors and other factors.
Will I still be able to use my car as a daily driver?
Many of our customers use their AJP turboed Honda Civic Si as their daily driver.
One of our earliest customers has over 40,000 miles on his kit that is installed on his 2006 Si.
How will your turbo kit affect my gas mileage?
As long as you stay out of boost, you gas mileage will stay nearly the same. Once you step on it, the gas mileage goes down.
Does your kit work outside of Florida?
Yes. We have customers all over the U.S and other countries.
I heard that your kit doesn't work in cold weather.
However, it is not safe to boost in cold weather due to large boost spikes that could damage your motor.
As air temperature drops, its density rises for a given volume of air. This means more oxygen is entering the system than is expected causing a lean condition.
You can drive your car all day in cold weather, but you should not boost.
What is a fuel return kit?
A fuel return kit ensures that enough fuel is supplied to the injectors at all times, especially during boost. We do not include a fuel return kit with our turbo kit because many customers and shops that buy our kit can build one on their own.
Do I need a fuel return kit?
With FlashPro, it is possible to run without one, but from a safety standpoint, we recommend that you get it.
It's a small investment to make sure you are 100% guaranteed to have fuel.
Do I have to buy your fuel return kit?
No. You or your local shop can build one. A fuel return kit has no special parts and many internet sites detail the procurement and assembly of parts.
Does your kit bypass the stock fuel filter?
No. The fuel travels from the Walbro pump to the stock fuel filter to the fuel line and on to the fuel rail. The excess fuel leaves the fuel rail and returns to the fuel tank via the fuel return kit's external fuel pressure regulator.
What piggybacks did you use with the Hondata reflash?
We used the AEM Fuel/Ignition Controller and the Greddy e-Manage Ultimate.
Now we are using FlashPro by Hondata for the start-to-finish tuning.
Can I use my own piggyback and your base map?
Yes - you will need to ship your piggyback to us so that we can install it. There is a cost associated with using our base map.
Do you provide a base map for the piggyback?
We provide base maps for the AEM Fuel/Ignition Controller and the Greddy e-Manage Ultimate for a fee. We must have your unit to install the base map.
How are you using the AEM Fuel/Ignition Controller?
It is a possible tuning solution for countries that are ineligible for the Hondata FlashPro or Hondata AJP Turbo reflash.
It is also a possible tuning solution for the automatic transmission version of our R18 turbo kit.
Can I use the AEM F/IC without FlashPro?
Yes, but according to limited customer feedback, we found that it does not work well.
Are there other controllers that work with the kit and the Hondata reflash?
Yes, we have also installed the Greddy e-Manage Ultimate on our shop car and a customer's car. The e-Manage Ultimate costs more but offers more flexibility to the tuner.
Do I have to use the AEM F/IC or other piggyback tuning device on my kit?
No, Hondata's FlashPro is fine for whatever power range you're after.
How complete is your base map?
Our base map should give you about 80% of the tune. Your tuner can start from there and finish off the tuning.
How much tuning must be done with your base map?
Our base map provides a good starting point for your tuner. Your tuner will need to fine-tune your car for local climate conditions including temperature and altitude.
Are you able to provide support to my tuner?
Unfortunately, we cannot. Make sure you get a competent tuner who knows your piggyback.
What is the Road Monster Package?
The Road Monster Packages are where we build the motor with rods, pistons and bearings.
For the higher-horsepower Advanced Road Monster package, we also sleeve the block.
You can get somewhere between 500 - 550 whp with the Standard Road Monster Package or 600-700 whp with the Advanced Road Monster Package.
What is the difference between the Standard Road Monster Package and the Advanced Road Monster Package?
The Advanced Road Monster Package includes sleeving the block while the Standard Road Monster Package does not.
How long does it take to build the motor?
The Standard Road Monster Package takes 2 weeks. The Advanced Road Monster Package takes 3 weeks.
Do I have to upgrade the kit when I get the Road Monster Package?
No. We use the same kit for both the stock motor and the Road Monster Package. The beauty of our kit is that it scales up the power range without requiring upgrades. So you can always upgrade your motor later and never worry about having to buy additional parts for the kit.
Other kits top out at a certain power level and if you want to go higher than that, you have to buy a bigger turbo, bigger injectors and other parts. People wind up spending more money for less power than if they had bought our kit in the first place.
What is the procedure for getting the Road Monster Package and turbo kit?
Schedule at least one month in advance.
Allow 2 or 3 weeks for the build and turbo kit installation.
Put 750 miles on the car to break in the motor - either you or we can drive it.
Tune the car.
What else do you recommend?
You must upgrade your clutch. We recommend the Competition Clutch Multiplate Assembly Twin Disk Ceramic Kit. There are two versions of this kit depending on whether you get the Standard Road Monster Package or the Advanced Road Monster package.
You should get the Ingalls Stiffy Engine Torque Damper to reduce the vibrations of the engine under boost.
If you're going to go to the track, you must use slicks when you go maximum boost. You can get by with drag radials, but your times will suffer.
What kind of deals do you offer with the built motor?
You save a lot on labor costs if you install the turbo kit at the same time. We will also install your clutch and/or your Ingalls Stiffy Engine Torque Damper for free.
What kind of quarter-mile times can I expect with the Road Monster Package?
We're working on that with a few of our current customers. We will publish the results once we get them.
How much does it cost?
The price varies with the amount of hp you want.
Please contact us at [email protected] or 954 636 7992.
I can't stick around for 2 or 3 weeks - what are my options?
You can ship your car down and then come down in time to drive the car to break in the motor. Or you can ship it both ways.
Can I build my motor now and get the turbo kit later?
Only if you want to drive a dud.
A built motor has a lower compression, so if you do not turn up the boost, you will have less power than stock.
Do you ship your kit?
How much does it cost to ship the kit to _______?
Go to ups.com/fedex.com and calculate the cost with
Shipping weight: 100 lbs.
My Packaging/Your Packaging
Dimensions of box: 36" x 22" x 22" (otherwise known as an EH container)
Source ZIP code: 33351, Lauderhill, FL
How long does it take to ship the kit to _____?
Go to ups.com/fedex.com and calculate the cost with
Shipping weight: 100 lbs.
My Packaging/Your Packaging
Dimensions of box: 36" x 22" x 22" (otherwise known as an EH container)
Source ZIP code: 33351, Lauderhill, FL
Will your downpipe fit my Greddy turbo kit?
No. The Greddy turbo faces in the opposite direction of the AJP downpipe. The turbo also has a bolted flange while the AJP downpipe uses a v-band clamp.
Will your exhaust work with my Greddy turbo kit?
Yes, provided you fabricate a reducer that fits between your Greddy downpipe and the 3" AJP exhaust.
Do you have anything that works with my Greddy turbo kit?
Yes, our test pipe bolts right on with no modification and will give you some horsepower.
Can you tune a Greddy turbo kit?
Yes, we can tune a Greddy turbo kit. Call us for an appointment.
Can you install a Greddy turbo kit?
Yes. Please contact us for pricing and installation details.
Does your Si kit fit an Acura?
No. It will not fit any Acura RSX or TSX. Everything is rearranged in an Acura from the Civic Si.
What happened with your R & D project with Katie and HBAR Motorsports?
8th Civic will not let us respond directly on their website.
Here is our response to the thread: http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/turbocharging/208746-hbar-motorsports-r18-v-band-turbo-kit-lots-reading.html
Please read to get both sides of the story:
My name is David and I handle the e-mails and Si turbo kit production for AJP. I started working at AJP in January 2008 thought I had volunteered my time and efforts there starting in 2006. I took my Toyota Camry to this place since 1996, so I was a satisfied daily driver customer of this shop for over 10 years before entering the world of performance.
As you noted carefully in your review of Katie's posts, you will see that I am mentioned in the opening paragraph, and then quoted in e-mail communications. I did not take part in this R & D project except to order parts and help facilitate things along the way, such as contacting Hondata.
That said, this is my perspective as someone who was in the background but kept in touch as to the project's progress since I had to answer a lot of inquiries. I have no direct knowledge of the discussions or exchanges between Katie and other AJP employees since I was not there to hear them. Any conclusion based on who said what to whom would be speculation.
It is unfortunate that there has been a parting of the ways, but every story has two sides and since I have been dragged into this, I have no choice but to respond. Sadder yet is the way Katie chose to burn her bridges.
While it is not my style to criticize fellow business associates, the fact that we are being contrasted with another's supposedly impeccable character leaves me no choice but to do otherwise.Originally Posted by 08WhiteCivicOn a Saturday, Ron told me that Doc would be at the shop on Monday, and we would put back the Si ECU and Flashpro back on. So I went to the shop that Monday and Doc never came. So on Tuesday he said Doc was for SURE going to be there on Thursday…. Doc didn't show on Thursday either. Ron also said He was going to get a clutch made for the car…. never happened. The whole following week Doc never came. And the week after that Doc was suppose to be there on Tuesday…. ONCE AGAIN NO SHOW! I was getting very mad… So i went upon myself to call Doc and see whats up. Doc had NO idea that he was suppose to be at the shop for my car and was never contacted either.
There is a lot of background to this paragraph, the absence of which drastically alters the portrayal of Ron and Doc.
First, the implication is that Doc is being truthful while Ron is being untruthful about whether or not Doc was contacted. There is no evidence given for why Doc's response is any more honest or dishonest than Ron's. There is only the bold assertion, "Doc had NO idea that he was suppose to be at the shop for my car and was never contacted either."
In fact, Doc's long history says otherwise. Doc has been notoriously unreliable at showing up for appointments after he agreed to the appointment time. I have lost count the number of times a customer would show up for a dyno tune and wait for Doc to show up only to go home untuned. While the customer was at the shop, we would call Doc's phone repeatedly. No answer. No explanation would ever be given as to his no-show.
The way Katie details her repeated attempts at getting tuned by Doc is classic Doc behavior. We schedule a tune with Doc. He fails to show up. We call him and get no response. We reschedule. He fails to show up. We call him and get no response. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
For Katie to present this behavior as an aberration on Ron's part rather than Doc's part is to go against 2 years of AJP's experience with Doc.
Second, for weeks at a time, Doc would go off and not respond to numerous voicemails and e-mails. His voicemail would fill up and it would be impossible to even leave a message for him. We would ask around and see if anyone had seen of or heard from Doc.
Then he would reappear and start showing up again for his appointments at our shop, acting as if nothing happened. Back in the summer of 2008, his refusal to acknowledge our calls and e-mails was so bad that we drove down to his shop in the 'hood and started asking around for him. We asked one of the shops near his if they had seen Doc. The guy called Doc on his cell phone, spoke to Doc for a few minutes and then handed the phone to Ron. Doc resurfaced.
We hoped after the first time he disappeared, that it would be the end of that nonsense. I thought about discussing this issue when Doc and I drove up to Orlando to the Performance Racing Industry (PRI) trade show in December 2008, but decided against it because up until that point, Doc had not pulled his disappearing act again. But 2009 was a continuation of 2008. More extended disappearances.
During idle times at the shop when we were all talking, Doc would go on and on about other companies' lack of "business ethics". That phrase became a running joke between Ron and me because Doc's own "business ethics" included not showing up, not being reachable and not keeping us informed on a regular basis.
We are not the only one shop to observe this about Doc. In the course of my interactions with other shops, I have found that AJP's experience with Doc was not unique. He has severely disappointed others as well. One car builder told me he had customers who refused to tune with Doc because of his oft-repeated unreliability at showing up.
Why did we continue to use Doc? Because he is good at tuning. Outstanding. But his reliability is inversely related to his tuning skills.
What does AJP gain by telling Katie that Doc would be at the shop at an appointed time knowing full well that he wouldn't? AJP gains nothing. There is no reason to lie about Doc showing up.
Katy worked at AJP from April 2009 through the Fall 2009. She knows very well how unreliable Doc is at showing up. She saw first hand how many times he failed to show up for his appointments. The reason she gets the royal treatment now is because her car is at his shop. That has been the only way to make sure Doc follows through.
I am very interested to know why Katie thinks Doc was telling the truth when he told her that he was never contacted to be at the shop and why she chose to disbelieve Ron when he told her that Doc was scheduled to come in Monday, Thursday and Tuesday, especially since this experience is one of many of AJP's customers with Doc and there is no way she could have worked at AJP for all of those months without having seen that kind of unreliability out of Doc.Originally Posted by 08WhiteCivicOn Jan 16, 2010, at 3:12 PM, AJP Sales <[email protected]> wrote:
When can you bring in your car to set the hp down to 211 whp? The best course of action is to keep the Greddy e-manage in your car and take the power down.
To clarify, Ron said that FlashPro is not going back in because of the potential damage it can do to your motor.
Katie quotes me correctly when I communicated to her what Ron wanted me to say to her.
Which leaves me puzzled. Because there is no date as to when one of the aforementioned statements was made:Originally Posted by 08WhiteCivicWhen Ron got off the phone I asked him why he lied to me about putting Flashpro back on and he told me that he doesn't feel safe with it on the car.
Was this before or after Jan 16 2010 3:12pm?
Because if it was before, then it begs the question: is Ron allowed to change his mind without being called a liar?
If it was after, then Ron was being consistent with the answer that I e-mailed to her.
The account as given is biased towards implicating Ron as a liar, as shown by the words, "lied" and "lying", which is a presumption of guilt without evidence.Originally Posted by 08WhiteCivicAJP apparently has been lying to BOTH him and me and everyone else I know. It turns out that Ron hasn't personally spoke to Doug(from hondata) since 2007.
What is the lie?
That Ron said we've sent information to Hondata but now I say that Ron has not personally spoken to Doug from Hondata since 2007?
Perhaps we are using different meanings for the word "talk". When I used the word "talk", as in "Ron has not talked to Doug personally", I define the work "talk" to mean: utilizing one's vocal chords to generate sounds that impinge on the recipient's ear drums, either in person or on the telephone.
How is Katie using the word "talk"?
I do not use the word "talk" synonymously with the words "e-mail" or "communicate" because if it was e-mail, then I would have used the word "e-mail".
So when Katie asked me, "Has Ron personally talked to Doug to see when the flashpro might be coming out for the R18?", I understood that to mean, "Has Ron talked with Doug in person or on the phone?" and I answered the way I did with the answer of "No."
Did I say that we have not communicated with Doug? No. I answered Katie's question precisely, that Ron has not spoken with Doug on the phone or in person. Nowhere can it be construed that we had not communicated with Hondata whatsoever since 2007.
So where is the lie?
Perhaps the answer rests in the e-mail that Katie did not include in this post, the one that shows that we sent an e-mail to Hondata asking them for help with Katie's car. Not only did we ask them, but we sent them the Si FlashPro calibration file and data log file that Doc produced.
But before I include it here, I invite Katie to post this exact e-mail because as soon as I sent the e-mail to Hondata, I forwarded that very same e-mail to Katie on Sep 15 2009 7:41pm with the subject line: Fwd: Would you be able to help us with our R18 shop car? She has the same e-mail that I sent to Hondata.
So both Doc knew and Katie knew back in September 2009 that we tried to contact Hondata about this. And perhaps memories have faded but fortunately, e-mails don't. So when Katie writes,Originally Posted by 08WhiteCivicDuring the different tuning softwares, I was told by Ron that they were sending all the information(dyno graphs and all the other stuff to Doug at Hondata).
she has the proof right there in her e-mail inbox that Ron was telling the truth.
In light of that e-mail, it is mind-boggling to read,Originally Posted by 08WhiteCivicA day before I was going to drop my car off at his shop I get a call at 7 in the morning from him. He was pissed. AJP apparently has been lying to BOTH him and me and everyone else I know. It turns out that Ron hasn't personally spoke to Doug(from hondata) since 2007.
Why did Doc feel he was being lied to? She gives no information; in fact, it's a foregone conclusion on the part of Katie. Wouldn't it be fair, honest and open to detail the facts that prove the lie rather than to conclude that AJP has been lying?
So to assert,Originally Posted by 08WhiteCivicIf my tuner knew that before he started tuning my car originally, He would've contacted Doug himself and the R18 kit could've possibly been done ALONG TIME AGO
manifests a very selective and biased memory on the part of two people that ignores a key piece of information.
Where is this lie to Doc, Katie and everyone else that Katie knows?
Now let me give you my direct experience in working with Katie.Originally Posted by 08WhiteCivicI was planning on going to the shop the following day. I called the shop about 15 minutes before I left my house to let Ron know i was stopping by. Well, one of tech guys answered the phone and said Ron was with a customer to call back in 5 minutes. So I left my house and was on the way to the shop. So as i am less then a minute from the shop about to pull in the parking lot I call again and the same Tech picked up. I asked if he was done with the customer and he said yes but he JUST pulled away on a test drive." I responded with, "Oh ok well I am in the parking lot." I hung up the phone and walked into the office…. and i couldn't believe my eyes…. All the Techs and Ron (Ron was on the phone) were all in the office. Very loudly I open my mouth and said "ITS GREAT TO KNOW I HAVE A BUNCH OF LIARS WORKING ON MY CAR." and one of them say its a shop, what do you expect."
This one is a stunner.
Part of Katie's responsibilities at AJP included handling the phone calls. Regularly, as I worked in the office, I would watch Katie answer the phone and if Ron didn't want to take the call, she would tell the caller the very same thing: "Ron is on the phone.", "Ron is on a test drive.", "Ron is with another customer.", "Ron is gone for the day."
This does not excuse Ron! I don't like it and I don't do it!
But the issue at hand, lying about why Ron cannot take the phone call, is not unfamiliar to Katie. She apparently had no misgivings about giving a specific reason as to why Ron couldn't take the phone call when she knew otherwise. Trying to claim the moral high ground with this illustration is the height of hypocrisy.
Now let me turn to another e-mail exchange that may shed some additional light on who is lying to whom.
Some background information:Originally Posted by 08WhiteCivic"I was planning on moving to Orlando the 2nd week in January,"
blank lineOriginally Posted by 08WhiteCivic"About 3 weeks after moving to Orlando I was bringing my car down south to Doc's shop to get a Clutch made and change some things up."
If the move occurred in the second week of January 2010, Katie brought her car down to Doc's shop in early February.
Unaware of the unfolding drama, I sent Katie an e-mail:
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:24:24 -0500
Subject: Need your manifold
From: AJP Sales
Charles wants to use the manifold installed in your car as the master for mass production. Are you able to bring your car in to the shop?
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:55:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Need your manifold
To: AJP Sales
I don't have anytime to be able to bring my car in. I'm working and doing the college program. When I can make it down it would have to be a one day thing because I need my car. My schedule is completely booked at the moment.
What is the stated reason given to me why she couldn't bring the car in?Originally Posted by 08WhiteCivic"I'm working and doing the college program."
What is the real reason she couldn't bring the car in?Originally Posted by 08WhiteCivic"I was bringing my car down south to Doc's shop to get a Clutch made and change some things up."
Did I get an honest answer? Is "working and doing the college program" the same as "bringing my car down south to Doc's shop"?
Why couldn't Katie give me an honest answer and tell me that she was going with another shop to build her turbo kit?
Wouldn't the honest course of action be to return the AJP turbo kit first and then go to HBAR Motorsports?
Why hold on to the AJP kit if she already knew she was going with HBAR Motorsports?
Maybe it's because she needed that kit to help Doc make his own kit.
Maybe it's because Doc didn't start from scratch when he developed his turbo kit.
Maybe it's because he saw a way to make a quick buck at someone else's expense.
In other words, Doc took the AJP design to make his turbo kit.
I ordered the Precision Turbo 5457b back in June 2009 for Katie's car.
I purchased the steel elbows and flanges and drove back and forth between AJP and the welder to make Katie's turbo manifold.
I supervised the fabrication of intercooler pipes that would go on Katie's car.
I put together the complete set of couplers and clamps.
Who did all of the initial work on Katie's car? Not Doc. What percentage of the HBAR Motorsports R18 turbo kit is AJP's design and what percentage of it is Doc's? Let Katie post pictures of the difference in the kits.
What percentage of the profits of all of this work go to AJP? Zero.
What percentage of the profits of all of this work go to HBAR Motorsports? 100%
Is this an honest exchange of labor and compensation?
What do you call a person who takes someone's hard-earned intellectual property and gives it to someone else without the consent of the owner of that intellectual property?
What choices did Doc have?
1. Contact AJP and work with them to resolve this
2. Cut all ties with AJP and make all the money himself
What do you call someone who knowingly accepts intellectual property that doesn't belong to him and uses it to make money on it without regard for the owner of that intellectual property?
There are two separate and distinct issues:
Katie has raised the first issue:
1. Is AJP lying?
I now raise the second issue:
2. Who else is not only lying but stealing in all of this?
What happened with your R & D project with Katie and HBAR Motorsports? Part 2Originally Posted by 08WhiteCivicHBAR is the REASON FP was taking into consideration. It took Doc 2 months to do something it took AJP over a year to do.
Im not going bring up my under the table employment with them because it is irrelevant to the situation and its not in favor on their part.
I was really upset the first time I answered the phone and the person asked for Ron and I would go to Ron and say "you have a phone call" and he said "tell them im with a customer, ill call them right back." You think I enjoyed doing that?! NO WAY. Tell me what was I suppose to do, strap him down and tape the phone to his ear? It was wrong of me, yeah. I still dont understand why he couldnt answer the phones. He was my "boss" I guess you could say, I was getting PAID to do my job unfortunately it was telling people Ron was unavailable.
Doug at Hondata
This is what happened between AJP and Doug at Hondata. AJP lied and Hondata wouldve looked bad if the customer didnt contact Doug himself and found out the truth. When I spoke with Doug he told me the story as well and said he will not work with AJP because of the untruthful statements Ron that have been said.
Flashpro is out. HBAR is not the same as AJP. End of story. If they want me to give you more details on how their business is ran, I will and it will not be in their favor. I will leave it as it is and now you all have two sides of the story. I dont care if no one is on my side cause I stated what happened to me as a customer perspective and I know Im not a first to experience this.
Katie's response to my questions, predictably, went unanswered except for one telling reply.
When I pointed out that she lied routinely to customers on the phone, in the manner she claims she was lied to, she actually admits to lying. Which brings up two obvious questions:
1. Why did she continue to work there if she really hated lying to the customer? Apparently her desire for money overrode any "ethical" concerns about lying.
2. If she felt she had to lie because she was being paid, why does she not grant the same consideration to the other employees, whom she has called "BUNCH OF LIARS", who also get paid to answer the phones?
As a side note, she did not have to lie to the customer at all. She could have told the customer that Ron could not answer the phone, please leave a message. What is so difficult about asking that?
To address her other points:
It only took Doc 2 months because AJP did all of the hard work in designing the kit. Katie presented Doc with a complete kit that only needed tuning. So it's no wonder Doc only needed 2 months. All of the hard work was done for him.
Bringing up Katie's employment would be much more embarrassing for her than for AJP. This technique is a "paper tiger", full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
As always, there are two sides of the story about Doug at Hondata. Did Katie get both sides of the story? Did she provide any evidence of Doug actually affirming this? Shouldn't evidence be provided now that Katie has admitted that she is a liar?
Katie sweeps everything under the rug now that the spotlight is on her. "End of story", as if that answers all of the difficult questions that were posed to her.
If it were really "End of story", why did she bring up this long tale to begin with? Why didn't she just say that she had to move on from AJP? Why did she have to detail certain incidents, most of which could not withstand scrutiny?
Please note that Katie did not answer any of the questions put to her with any rational response. She has not denied that she lied. She has not denied that she stole AJP's turbo kit. Instead, she chose to bluff her way out, quite unsuccessfully.
Update: June 15, 2010 - We have not received our turbo kit back from her. She is in possession of a turbo kit that does not belong to her. What does that make her?
Why was there a pinned post, "Something you should consider before going AJP: A true story about liars", in the Forced Induction and Nitrous sub forum?
A moderator (who has since left the position and 8th Civic) was tired of seeing the post resurrected from the dead, not because there was any genuinely useful information.
The author of the post, Jeshua, agreed to donate his car to prototyping the AJP R18 turbo kit. Days before he was to get his car tuned by Doug of Hondata, he backed out of the deal. We refunded the money he paid for the kit.
However, he wanted compensation for other expenses incurred. Apparently, he did not understand the nature of an R & D project and went on a rant when we informed him that we were not in a position to reimburse him for all of his expenses.
Note that he was never a full-paying customer but a research & development partner.
Did you create a second (or multiple) accounts to boost your reputation?
But don't take our word for it. Let each side present its case and you make the call.
Here is our side:
In August 2007, Tim drove down to our shop from Connecticut to have us install the kit in his car. While he was here, he connected to our wireless network to post about his experience. He continued his posts back at his hotel. He then drove back to Connecticut.
We have had numerous customers come down to our shop to install our kit in their car. Some stick around the shop, others tour South Florida for the week that they are down here.
Here are facts any registered 8th Civic member can see for himself:
Tim's 8th Civic screen name was Snowbird.
On November 29, 2006, he became a member of 8th Civic.
On November 29, 2006, he made his first post, asking about the AJP turbo kit.
On June 11, 2007, he made his second post, with just a general greeting.
On June 12, 2007, he made his third post indicating his intention to be at an All Florida meet.
On June 12, 2007, he made his fourth post asking if AJP is going to be at the meet.
Beginning on August 10, 2007, with the infamous Jeshua thread spinning out of control, Tim supported AJP by posting a highly-favorable review of AJP. Understandably, he is swarmed by haters.
At one point, someone asks him where he is located and Tim responds by telling him where his home is, which is Connecticut. He did not indicate where he was at that point in time, which was South Florida.
Here is their side:
Webby (owner of 8th Civic) and the moderators inspect the IP address of the posts Tim made on August 10, 2007 and compare it to posts made by known AJP people at the shop. It matches. They also locate another IP address from Tim's posts to be in South Florida, not too far from the first IP address.
Thus, they conclude that Tim is an AJP employee and not a customer. They lock the thread and ban Snowbird. End of discussion.
How watertight, airtight and bulletproof is Webby's case?
Question 1: If Webby is able to see the IP address of each post, why did he not post the IP address of Tim/Snowbird's first four posts (11/29/06, 6/11/07, 6/12/07, 6/12/07)? If anything supports the idea that Tim/Snowbird is really an AJP employee, it would be South FL IP addresses for those first four posts made months before the August 2007 posts.
We are confident that they are not. But nobody knows because Webby never revealed them. All he says is that they are not from Connecticut and that they were outside of Florida. He refuses to list them. Basically, he is saying, "Take my word for it." instead of laying the evidence out like he was so quick to do when he listed the Florida IP addresses.
Question 2: AJP's reputation was spiraling out of control on 8th Civic in Spring 2007. Why would we wait several more months and over 8 months after we joined the forum to boost our reputation?
Question 3: Which set of facts fits the multiple IP address scenario better? What is the simpler resolution?
Scneario 1: Someone posts from his computer in Connecticut (or at least, outside of Florida) on 3 separate days spread out over 7 months from 11/29/06 to 6/12/07. He then drives down from Connecticut, posts on 8th Civic with his computer connected to AJP's wireless network and the South Florida hotel's network (two IP addresses located near each other).
Scenario 2: An AJP employee posts 4 times spread out over 7 months from 11/29/06 to 6/12/07. He then posts two months later to boost AJP's sagging reputation. It is shown that his August 2007 posts are located in South Florida, both at AJP and near AJP.
However, it is *not* known or revealed where his first four posts were made. If he were an AJP employee, then the only consistent conclusion would be that the first four posts would also have South FL IP addresses. If not, then the AJP employee would have to be in the location where those IP addresses are (like Connecticut).
Webby never gave Tim/Snowbird a chance to respond. Tim could have dispelled any notion of a fake account by posting when he got home and letting Webby and the moderators inspect that IP address. But they didn't.
Webby wonders why Tim never contacted him. Uh, maybe because he was upset after being banned so quickly (like, before he got home to Connecticut)? Many members have left 8th Civic in a huff. Do you think they would contact Webby if they were *banned* from 8th Civic?
Does Webby attempt to explain the first four IP addresses that were outside of Florida? No.
Why is Webby so selective in presenting his evidence? Is he giving you the information and letting you decide? Or is he giving you his conclusion and leaving out the details? Which side is being dishonest in presenting its case?
Finally, IP locators vary in their accuracy. Check out this website for a comparison:
From our shop, our IP address is listed as Boca Raton, FL by one locator and Atlanta, GA by another locator. Only 623 miles apart and across state lines.
Using this IP address: 184.108.40.206
Use this locator service:
Compare the result to this locator service:
Finally, plug the IP address into this website:
Where is this domain located?
Once again, like his handling of the first four IP addresses of Snowbird, Webby never listed the tools he used to determine the location of the IP addresses either through ignorance of their inaccuracy or willful suppression of the evidence.
Wouldn't it be simple to list the IP addresses of all of the posts and the IP locators he used to reach his conclusion? Yes.
If it were so easy to nail Snowbird as an AJP employee, what is there to hide?
Whether or not Tim/Snowbird is from Connecticut (we don't do background checks of our customers), what does Webby and AJP agree on? That the first 4 posts, over an 7-month span, were not made in Florida!
http://www (dot) 8thcivic (dot) com/forums/forced-induction-nitrous/52093-let-truth-told-2.html
Update: 8th Civiic.com was so convinced of us creating fake accounts that they went on to accuse someone who bought our kit as an AJP employee due to his vocal support of us. We still don't even know what this person looks like, let alone employed him!
I read where you __________.
We would be happy to respond to specific incidents. Please supply a link to the incident(s) in question so we can see it for ourselves. We want to make sure we respond to actual details and not hearsay and embellishments.
Why do I read that Florida customers get great service but out of state customers do not?
Because the people who say that are only repeating what they've read but never bother to:
1) get our side of the story
2) investigate the details of the story
Isn't it odd that they don't include details nor are they ever asked to supply details.
What you have not heard about are the shops we have been supporting as they install our turbo kits. Over the past year, we gave ongoing support to shops in Portland, OR, Pelham, NH, Pittsburgh, PA, Philadelphia, PA, Sikeston, MO.
Additionally, our kits have been installed by customers in Venezuela, Cayman Islands and Puerto Rico.